Thicker brass than winchester or remington. Alter your loads accordingly. Having said that I would rate the standard pretty much as good if not a lot better than the former described. I found This may be avoided, both by lessening velocity or using the Hornady 25 grainers. Currently being slender- https://17-hornet-brass81345.blogpayz.com/26674798/17-hornet-brass-in-stock-no-further-a-mystery